As promised... a better ending post for The Help. I apologize (once again) for not being dedicated to this book. It was a very good book and I did enjoy it in the end.
My favorite characters in this book are Aibileen, Minny, and Celia. And probably in that order, too. Notice how they are all the 'outcasts'? Very clearly written so that we would be sympathetic towards them.
Celia I like because she just doesn't seem to see color. Minny seems to chalk it up to her being from the wrong side of the train tracks (i.e. not growing up in society and not knowing any better)... but I think she is really ahead of the game. Even I 'see color' and feel awkward and like I don't know how I am supposed to act around people who are different than me. I admire that she seems to talk to Minny just like anyone else. Even if she isn't the brightest AND is trying to take credit for Minny's cooking, cleaning, and general house-wifery skills. I also really enjoyed Celia's journey to just being herself. And I like her better for it.
Minny I like because she is spunky. She has strong opinions and voices them (sometimes) but also tries to keep it under control. The only thing that I didn't like about her story was that she was married to an abusive man. I suppose you could say that it was pretty accepted back then, but it just was so unfair.
Aibileen I like because she is so wise and so smart. I love that she knows her strengths, writes down her prayers. And she writes them down straight for God and not for showing off. The way she treats Mae Mobley; especially the way she tried to teach her right from wrong. That she seemed to be able to say all the right things about the difference in color. That it's "because God made me this way" and no other reason. That having different colors on the inside doesn't make a person dirty or less deserving of anything. I admire the way that she loves Mae and tells her good things (you a good girl, a kind girl, you important). Those are things that I think every child needs to have affirmed in them from a very young age. Heck, I need to be giving MYSELF those affirmations.
So I guess the reason that I like these characters is because they have qualities that I admire or want to have in myself. And heck, I want to go back and re-read Aibileen's sections and mark the things she says that I want to remember even more. :) Oh, and add in that Minny and Aibileen especially stood up for what they believed in even when they were being threatened! I LOVE what Aibileen says to Miss Hilly at the end.
One thing I'm curious about: do you all think that Miss Skeeter 'got off easy'?
Feel free to post/ponder your own questions for discussion. And I want to know your thoughts on the (middle and) end of the book!
Monday, April 9, 2012
Monday, February 20, 2012
Chapters 8-13
Ahh lovely ladies. These are just the summaries and some of my super short ramblings. I'm going to publish this when I am done here. Feel free to start commenting whenever. Tonight I will do my best to get back on the blog and edit my thoughts a bit more.
Chapter 8 - Back to Skeeter (already??); Flashback to a call with Mrs Stein; she explains her reasons for wanting to write the book, but still doesn't have any idea of how dangerous or monumental it would be; Skeeter tries to pay Aibileen for helping her with the Miss Myrna letters, but it very clearly comes off as a bribe hoping to get Aibileen to help and give an interview; in another flashback, Hilly strong-arms Aibileen to say thank you for that wretched colored bathroom; the Shinalator actually works.
Chapter 9 - Skeeter's date; Stuart is a great, big a-hole
Chapter 10 - Minny; finally! I wanted to know what happened when Mr Johnny came home...and it turns out it wasn't actually him; Anyway- it is finally December and this is the month Miss Celia is supposed to tell Johnny about hiring Minny; Celia manages to really aggrevate Minny by mentioning the praise she'd gotten from Johnny on one of Minny's pies (it really isn't fair, her taking credit for Minny's fine cooking); Minny tells Aibileen that no, she won't help Skeeter with her stories; Celia yells at Minny when she's having some kind of attack (Mandy I still don't know what her condition is, but I'm sure it's related) and then cries and apologizes to her the next day; Mister Johnny finally comes home and catches Minny but, GASP, isn't mad and, GASP, wants Minny to keep it a secret that he knows that Miss Celia is keeping a secret from him; but where is Celia at??
Chapter 11 - Skeeter (again) Her first meeting with Aibileen isn't productive at all; on the second go-around, she does seem to be getting more considerate (not making Aibileen serve her, for example) and almost trying to get to talk to each other closer to equals; though she does have misconceptions...like that writing is much to difficult for a black woman who works as help full-time and never went to college*;
Chapter 12 - Skeeter; lying to her mother that she is feeding the hungry**; Aibileen is doing all her own writing with Skeeter editing ***; it comes out that Aibileen has a whole long list of books she wants to read but that she can't get out of her colored library; Skeeter sends her manuscript off to Mrs Stein and has nightmares for 15 hours straight (how in the world did that girl get FIFTEEN hours of sleep??); Hilly gives Skeeter the note about the sanitation issues (UGH); Minny agrees to help; her reaction, conversation, and rules I think give Skeeter a small reality check.
Chapter 13 - Skeeter in this chapter, Skeeter finally starts to get a taste of what the consquenses are for going against white society; Stuart shows up and apologizes; they finally have a real and good date; Skeeter finds Jim Crow laws in the library and right away compares them to what Hilly is trying to do; at the Society meeting, Skeeter accidentally leaves her satchel behind; Hilly goes through it (how much she went through, we don't know); Skeeter gets her first ominous and non-directly-stated threat.
"Shame ain't the black, like dirt, like I always thought it was. Shame be the color of a new white uniform your mother ironed all night to pay for, white without a smudge or speck a work-dirt on it." p 176
** "{Mother} tells me on the side to make sure I wash my hands thoroughly with soap afterward" p 177
*** Once again you get that theme of the Help doing the work and the white ladies taking credit
I thought it was ironic when Skeeter yells to her mama that she is "Just writing down all the things I love about Jesus" when she is typing up Aibileen's stories. Ironic or funny. Because Jesus was all about the outcasts of his day: the widows, the poor, the orphans. And here Skeeter is writing about the outcasts of her time (today's too, really).
Skeeter is starting to realize other things about the 'colored' life in Mississippi. She is starting to notice things about the way people treat the African Americans, more and more she notices the divisions in society. *BUT she still doesn't give Aibileen credit for having a brain of her own (as another example, when Skeeter makes up a list of other maids to ask. Aibileen already asked 31 other women).
Chapter 8 - Back to Skeeter (already??); Flashback to a call with Mrs Stein; she explains her reasons for wanting to write the book, but still doesn't have any idea of how dangerous or monumental it would be; Skeeter tries to pay Aibileen for helping her with the Miss Myrna letters, but it very clearly comes off as a bribe hoping to get Aibileen to help and give an interview; in another flashback, Hilly strong-arms Aibileen to say thank you for that wretched colored bathroom; the Shinalator actually works.
Chapter 9 - Skeeter's date; Stuart is a great, big a-hole
Chapter 10 - Minny; finally! I wanted to know what happened when Mr Johnny came home...and it turns out it wasn't actually him; Anyway- it is finally December and this is the month Miss Celia is supposed to tell Johnny about hiring Minny; Celia manages to really aggrevate Minny by mentioning the praise she'd gotten from Johnny on one of Minny's pies (it really isn't fair, her taking credit for Minny's fine cooking); Minny tells Aibileen that no, she won't help Skeeter with her stories; Celia yells at Minny when she's having some kind of attack (Mandy I still don't know what her condition is, but I'm sure it's related) and then cries and apologizes to her the next day; Mister Johnny finally comes home and catches Minny but, GASP, isn't mad and, GASP, wants Minny to keep it a secret that he knows that Miss Celia is keeping a secret from him; but where is Celia at??
Chapter 11 - Skeeter (again) Her first meeting with Aibileen isn't productive at all; on the second go-around, she does seem to be getting more considerate (not making Aibileen serve her, for example) and almost trying to get to talk to each other closer to equals; though she does have misconceptions...like that writing is much to difficult for a black woman who works as help full-time and never went to college*;
Chapter 12 - Skeeter; lying to her mother that she is feeding the hungry**; Aibileen is doing all her own writing with Skeeter editing ***; it comes out that Aibileen has a whole long list of books she wants to read but that she can't get out of her colored library; Skeeter sends her manuscript off to Mrs Stein and has nightmares for 15 hours straight (how in the world did that girl get FIFTEEN hours of sleep??); Hilly gives Skeeter the note about the sanitation issues (UGH); Minny agrees to help; her reaction, conversation, and rules I think give Skeeter a small reality check.
Chapter 13 - Skeeter in this chapter, Skeeter finally starts to get a taste of what the consquenses are for going against white society; Stuart shows up and apologizes; they finally have a real and good date; Skeeter finds Jim Crow laws in the library and right away compares them to what Hilly is trying to do; at the Society meeting, Skeeter accidentally leaves her satchel behind; Hilly goes through it (how much she went through, we don't know); Skeeter gets her first ominous and non-directly-stated threat.
"Shame ain't the black, like dirt, like I always thought it was. Shame be the color of a new white uniform your mother ironed all night to pay for, white without a smudge or speck a work-dirt on it." p 176
** "{Mother} tells me on the side to make sure I wash my hands thoroughly with soap afterward" p 177
*** Once again you get that theme of the Help doing the work and the white ladies taking credit
I thought it was ironic when Skeeter yells to her mama that she is "Just writing down all the things I love about Jesus" when she is typing up Aibileen's stories. Ironic or funny. Because Jesus was all about the outcasts of his day: the widows, the poor, the orphans. And here Skeeter is writing about the outcasts of her time (today's too, really).
Skeeter is starting to realize other things about the 'colored' life in Mississippi. She is starting to notice things about the way people treat the African Americans, more and more she notices the divisions in society. *BUT she still doesn't give Aibileen credit for having a brain of her own (as another example, when Skeeter makes up a list of other maids to ask. Aibileen already asked 31 other women).
Thursday, February 9, 2012
Chapters 5-7
UGH-
Worst news ever? My last deleted itself after I tried to edit it. Dang Dang dang. I realized that I had really only read chapters 5-7, so I went in to try and edit out the "chapter 8" part. FAIL.
I don't have the time to re-do my post right now, but I do remember that I had posted a few questions. If anyone would like to take the lead and do a really fast summary in a comment, I'm all for it. It's just that right now I am going out the door for a 'bridesmaids' event at my brother's fiance's place.
Questions:
How do you feel about the fact that Skeeter's mom is disappointed in her degree? In her mother's eyes, college is for getting a man and getting married. Not actually finishing the degree.
How do you feel about the relationship between white children and the black maids? Do you think that Skeeter's affection for Constantine is really love? There is so much she never knew about Constantine. She never really, truly knew her. Probably 99% due to the societal constraints on them. Wouldn't you think that more white children (raised by black women) would question the societal standards like Skeeter is doing?? Apparently the hatred and general culture is more powerful than those small, human interactions.
What do you think about Skeeter trying to pressure Aibileen to do her book? Is it more self-serving for her career than anything?
And now, my lovely ladies, I've gotta go!
Worst news ever? My last deleted itself after I tried to edit it. Dang Dang dang. I realized that I had really only read chapters 5-7, so I went in to try and edit out the "chapter 8" part. FAIL.
I don't have the time to re-do my post right now, but I do remember that I had posted a few questions. If anyone would like to take the lead and do a really fast summary in a comment, I'm all for it. It's just that right now I am going out the door for a 'bridesmaids' event at my brother's fiance's place.
Questions:
How do you feel about the fact that Skeeter's mom is disappointed in her degree? In her mother's eyes, college is for getting a man and getting married. Not actually finishing the degree.
How do you feel about the relationship between white children and the black maids? Do you think that Skeeter's affection for Constantine is really love? There is so much she never knew about Constantine. She never really, truly knew her. Probably 99% due to the societal constraints on them. Wouldn't you think that more white children (raised by black women) would question the societal standards like Skeeter is doing?? Apparently the hatred and general culture is more powerful than those small, human interactions.
What do you think about Skeeter trying to pressure Aibileen to do her book? Is it more self-serving for her career than anything?
And now, my lovely ladies, I've gotta go!
Sunday, February 5, 2012
The Help, by Kathryn Stockett
Well ladies, it's official. I finally got my lazy butt to finish reading chapters 3 and 4. After promising I'd have them done by Wednesday so that we could start talking. ;) This book is certainly much different from the Hunger Games. It is less about the excitement and action; much more about the conflict between people. Both individuals and groups of people.
Now... whenever I am reading something, I feel like I always focus on the wrong things. Like I get hung up on the details and I don't really see the bigger picture. So once again I'm hoping that you girls get something out of what I'm writing, and make the discussions even better with your comments.
Chapters 1 & 2 - Aibileen
This was our first look at the society in 1962 Mississippi. Where white women are more concerned about being society women than about raising their families. On one hand, I'd like to knock them down for not cleaning, not cooking, and not raising their own children. On the other hand, I'm still working out how to not be lazy about keeping my house clean, I only help Brad make most of our dinners...and I only have cats. Which are rather easy to take care of compared to children.
Aibileen is the first point of view that we see. She is taking care of the Leefolt place, and the Leefolt baby. During the Bridge game that Miss Leefolt has, only Miss Skeeter even almost talks with and treats Aibileen like more than just the black hired help. Miss Hilly goes on a separate-bathrooms rant, gets Minny fired. Minny gets back at her doing God-knows-what to that pie (my bet is a laxative). Aibileen helps Minny get a new job after Hilly has been spreading rooms about Minny stealing silver. BUT it is with Miss Celia...the lady that the other white women talk about as white trash. Talking about her almost as bad as they talk about the help.
Chapters 3 & 4 - Minny
When I dove into the book, I didn't pay much attention to the chapter headings (attention to detail... must work on that one). So it wasn't until I got to chapter 3 that I realized that the perspective was going to change. After that, I decided to see if there was a pattern. And it looks like it alternates every two chapters between Aibileen, Minny, and Skeeter.
We start off with Minny going to interview with Miss Celia. There is a flashback to when Minny first starts working for white people and her mother tells her to not sass back. Of course, from what we know of Minny already she sometimes has a hard time roping that in. She interviews with the job with Miss Celia; Miss Celia comes from a bad part of Mississippi. Not exactly the kind of society lady the rest of the white women are that we've met. You feel for her: she is just as much of an outsider but in a different way. Celia clearly feels inferior and inept. She wants to make good impressions, but her upbringing is kind of holding her back. She hires Minny to clean and cook and give Celia cooking lessons...but she is hiding something. She won't tell her husband she's got hired help because (so she says) she wants him to think that she is learning to manage the house on her own. She is certainly hiding something. I want to know what--sometimes I get the impression that maybe she has a medical condition. Either that, or a crippling fear of moving about in the community.
This first Minny section ends with Mister Johnny coming home early and taking the women by surpruse.
First impressions...
What are your first impressions? What do you think of the characters? The point of view? The way the book is written?
Sometimes it's hard for me to imagine all that prejudice. I mean... separate bathrooms for black people because they might carry disease? (Really because the white people don't want their help using their bathrooms.) It's unbelievable. That is such an ignorant thing to say and think... and pass off as the truth.
At first I was thinking about how isolated I am from That kind of thinking. Both in a "that was so long ago" way and in an "I don't encounter that in my every day life" kind of way. Then I was thinking about it more... and that kind of ignorant thinking still happens. We were at Thanksgiving with Brad's family a few years ago. His uncle (through marriage) was drunk and going off on rants about how gay people should have separate bathrooms. And that's just the thing, isn't it? Maybe some people think "oh, we've got that whole black/civil rights thing figured out now." But really it just moves on to a different group of people.
I realized that I don't remember much about the Civil Rights movement at all, so I did a google search and came across this timeline: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/civilrightstimeline1.html
I went down to 1962 to see what kinds of things were going on around that time. And wouldn't you know- the first black student enrolled at the University of Mississippi. President Kennedy sent 5,000 troops (5,000 federal troops) because rioting against that young man going to University got out of hand.
Now... whenever I am reading something, I feel like I always focus on the wrong things. Like I get hung up on the details and I don't really see the bigger picture. So once again I'm hoping that you girls get something out of what I'm writing, and make the discussions even better with your comments.
Chapters 1 & 2 - Aibileen
This was our first look at the society in 1962 Mississippi. Where white women are more concerned about being society women than about raising their families. On one hand, I'd like to knock them down for not cleaning, not cooking, and not raising their own children. On the other hand, I'm still working out how to not be lazy about keeping my house clean, I only help Brad make most of our dinners...and I only have cats. Which are rather easy to take care of compared to children.
Aibileen is the first point of view that we see. She is taking care of the Leefolt place, and the Leefolt baby. During the Bridge game that Miss Leefolt has, only Miss Skeeter even almost talks with and treats Aibileen like more than just the black hired help. Miss Hilly goes on a separate-bathrooms rant, gets Minny fired. Minny gets back at her doing God-knows-what to that pie (my bet is a laxative). Aibileen helps Minny get a new job after Hilly has been spreading rooms about Minny stealing silver. BUT it is with Miss Celia...the lady that the other white women talk about as white trash. Talking about her almost as bad as they talk about the help.
Chapters 3 & 4 - Minny
When I dove into the book, I didn't pay much attention to the chapter headings (attention to detail... must work on that one). So it wasn't until I got to chapter 3 that I realized that the perspective was going to change. After that, I decided to see if there was a pattern. And it looks like it alternates every two chapters between Aibileen, Minny, and Skeeter.
We start off with Minny going to interview with Miss Celia. There is a flashback to when Minny first starts working for white people and her mother tells her to not sass back. Of course, from what we know of Minny already she sometimes has a hard time roping that in. She interviews with the job with Miss Celia; Miss Celia comes from a bad part of Mississippi. Not exactly the kind of society lady the rest of the white women are that we've met. You feel for her: she is just as much of an outsider but in a different way. Celia clearly feels inferior and inept. She wants to make good impressions, but her upbringing is kind of holding her back. She hires Minny to clean and cook and give Celia cooking lessons...but she is hiding something. She won't tell her husband she's got hired help because (so she says) she wants him to think that she is learning to manage the house on her own. She is certainly hiding something. I want to know what--sometimes I get the impression that maybe she has a medical condition. Either that, or a crippling fear of moving about in the community.
This first Minny section ends with Mister Johnny coming home early and taking the women by surpruse.
First impressions...
What are your first impressions? What do you think of the characters? The point of view? The way the book is written?
Sometimes it's hard for me to imagine all that prejudice. I mean... separate bathrooms for black people because they might carry disease? (Really because the white people don't want their help using their bathrooms.) It's unbelievable. That is such an ignorant thing to say and think... and pass off as the truth.
At first I was thinking about how isolated I am from That kind of thinking. Both in a "that was so long ago" way and in an "I don't encounter that in my every day life" kind of way. Then I was thinking about it more... and that kind of ignorant thinking still happens. We were at Thanksgiving with Brad's family a few years ago. His uncle (through marriage) was drunk and going off on rants about how gay people should have separate bathrooms. And that's just the thing, isn't it? Maybe some people think "oh, we've got that whole black/civil rights thing figured out now." But really it just moves on to a different group of people.
I realized that I don't remember much about the Civil Rights movement at all, so I did a google search and came across this timeline: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/civilrightstimeline1.html
I went down to 1962 to see what kinds of things were going on around that time. And wouldn't you know- the first black student enrolled at the University of Mississippi. President Kennedy sent 5,000 troops (5,000 federal troops) because rioting against that young man going to University got out of hand.
Wednesday, January 25, 2012
Next book?.
So our first three books were easy choices. ;)
What do we read next? I believe 'The Help' was tossed around, but I believe that half of us have read it. Not myself, though. Opinions?
Sunday, January 22, 2012
Wrap up for Mockingjay
MAJOR spoilers if you haven't finished the book yet!! (also, as a late edit... I had meant to leave this really open-ended. I want lots of conversation at the end here! I think the books deserved it...but I got going and just couldn't stop. Forgive me. <3)
Somehow, Suzanne Collins manages to get me all roped into her story...resulting in me not being able to put the book down. So unfortunately (or fortunately) I am going to depart a bit from my normal layout and just straight to: so what did you ladies think of the way the whole HG series wrapped up?
I know that Mandy and I were both hysterical messes at the end. I was thrilled with the way that Collins finished out the books. They made sense to me. Of course, after I was done reading and still trying to calm down, I decided to read some of the reviews on Goodreads. I was so surprised that there were a number of 1 and 2 star ratings. People who had loved the first book, and then gradually became more and more disappointed as the series went on.
We all confessed that the beginning of MJ bored us practically to tears. But some of the other complaints were that Katniss seemed to have lost her edge. That all she did in the third book was mope about. Defy her schedules, hide in corners, closets, and bathtubs and sleep her life away. They were disappointed that she was basically used as a puppet in everything that she did. That she never really seemed to make any decisions for herself. And that she wasn't much like herself in the first book at all.
I think that one of Kat's major character flaws is that yes she cares about her loved ones almost to a fault. Pretty much to the point that it blinds her. It makes her seem very selfish. I mean, even I thought she was being a little selfish when Peeta came back but had gone over the deep end. BUT- I also catch myself thinking that it is exactly how she had always been. Always suspicious. Always looking out for her survival, number one. Peeta was always the care-taker. Always putting her before himself. Katniss wasn't like that.
Many people also didn't like the way she 'just' ended up with Peeta. They claimed that it was like everything else that seemed to happen in the third book. It just happened to her. That she didn't have a choice in it. Well, as much as I can almost agree that they did just kind of come together at the end, I don't there there was any other way for them to survive. She could have never, never been with Gale after the war ended. Partially because of what I said in my other post (I think I said it). Peeta and Katniss have so much history together. They were completely broken down by the government. They were manipulated, threatened, tortured. That is an experience that would never be able to be replicated. Sure, Gale had to deal with the whipping. He had to see District 12 bombed to the ground. But he was never affected on as much of a psychological level in the way that Kat and Peeta were. There are just some things that he wouldn't have been able to understand. Katniss may have had a certain kind and level of love for him at some point, but the way life unwound itself, they never could have been together.
I still stand by the fact that Katniss never really knew Gale. His true colors came out during the war, I think. Yes- they made excellent hunting partners that was a need they filled for each other. And yes, they may have been able to practically read each other's minds, move as one body...when they were younger. But there was a split...especially after the bombing that ended the war.
Another thing I saw is that people (as I mentioned earlier) didn't seem to like the portrayal of Katniss during her depressions. But I thought that it was real, and true, and so desperate. So lost. Let's not forget: she is only 17 when all of this is happening. Hell. At 24 I am pretty sure that I would crack! That is what depression looks like in real life. Lacking motivation, trying to bottle up things so that you don't feel them as much, pushing people away...yet at the same time needing something to pull you forward. It isn't something that is easy to make it through. I don't think that people gave her enough credit. She is so strong for coming out on the other side. Changed. Learning to live through life the way it happened. But she is surviving.
Annnnd- many people thought some of the deaths were completely senseless and basically uncalled for. Well. War is senseless. People die all the time when they didn't deserve to. And again- I think it makes the story more real. Don't get me wrong...at Finnick's death, I sobbed. Sobbed. On the couch for probably five minutes. It turns out that some people don't want real-life tragedy in their books. Always wanting their favorite characters to survive. Everything to be wrapped up in a neat little bow. But I think it is more meaningful to have things not work out 100% the way you want to. It makes you feel and grieve with the characters.
Um. And now after all of that I am spent. I think I left a lot of my ideas kind of hanging out there. Feel free to comment on what I've said above. Make it longer, more detailed, bring in your opinions. Or bring up some of the stuff that I left out (because I left A LOT out!). I am really hoping for a good long string of comments. ;)
Somehow, Suzanne Collins manages to get me all roped into her story...resulting in me not being able to put the book down. So unfortunately (or fortunately) I am going to depart a bit from my normal layout and just straight to: so what did you ladies think of the way the whole HG series wrapped up?
I know that Mandy and I were both hysterical messes at the end. I was thrilled with the way that Collins finished out the books. They made sense to me. Of course, after I was done reading and still trying to calm down, I decided to read some of the reviews on Goodreads. I was so surprised that there were a number of 1 and 2 star ratings. People who had loved the first book, and then gradually became more and more disappointed as the series went on.
We all confessed that the beginning of MJ bored us practically to tears. But some of the other complaints were that Katniss seemed to have lost her edge. That all she did in the third book was mope about. Defy her schedules, hide in corners, closets, and bathtubs and sleep her life away. They were disappointed that she was basically used as a puppet in everything that she did. That she never really seemed to make any decisions for herself. And that she wasn't much like herself in the first book at all.
I think that one of Kat's major character flaws is that yes she cares about her loved ones almost to a fault. Pretty much to the point that it blinds her. It makes her seem very selfish. I mean, even I thought she was being a little selfish when Peeta came back but had gone over the deep end. BUT- I also catch myself thinking that it is exactly how she had always been. Always suspicious. Always looking out for her survival, number one. Peeta was always the care-taker. Always putting her before himself. Katniss wasn't like that.
Many people also didn't like the way she 'just' ended up with Peeta. They claimed that it was like everything else that seemed to happen in the third book. It just happened to her. That she didn't have a choice in it. Well, as much as I can almost agree that they did just kind of come together at the end, I don't there there was any other way for them to survive. She could have never, never been with Gale after the war ended. Partially because of what I said in my other post (I think I said it). Peeta and Katniss have so much history together. They were completely broken down by the government. They were manipulated, threatened, tortured. That is an experience that would never be able to be replicated. Sure, Gale had to deal with the whipping. He had to see District 12 bombed to the ground. But he was never affected on as much of a psychological level in the way that Kat and Peeta were. There are just some things that he wouldn't have been able to understand. Katniss may have had a certain kind and level of love for him at some point, but the way life unwound itself, they never could have been together.
I still stand by the fact that Katniss never really knew Gale. His true colors came out during the war, I think. Yes- they made excellent hunting partners that was a need they filled for each other. And yes, they may have been able to practically read each other's minds, move as one body...when they were younger. But there was a split...especially after the bombing that ended the war.
Another thing I saw is that people (as I mentioned earlier) didn't seem to like the portrayal of Katniss during her depressions. But I thought that it was real, and true, and so desperate. So lost. Let's not forget: she is only 17 when all of this is happening. Hell. At 24 I am pretty sure that I would crack! That is what depression looks like in real life. Lacking motivation, trying to bottle up things so that you don't feel them as much, pushing people away...yet at the same time needing something to pull you forward. It isn't something that is easy to make it through. I don't think that people gave her enough credit. She is so strong for coming out on the other side. Changed. Learning to live through life the way it happened. But she is surviving.
Annnnd- many people thought some of the deaths were completely senseless and basically uncalled for. Well. War is senseless. People die all the time when they didn't deserve to. And again- I think it makes the story more real. Don't get me wrong...at Finnick's death, I sobbed. Sobbed. On the couch for probably five minutes. It turns out that some people don't want real-life tragedy in their books. Always wanting their favorite characters to survive. Everything to be wrapped up in a neat little bow. But I think it is more meaningful to have things not work out 100% the way you want to. It makes you feel and grieve with the characters.
Um. And now after all of that I am spent. I think I left a lot of my ideas kind of hanging out there. Feel free to comment on what I've said above. Make it longer, more detailed, bring in your opinions. Or bring up some of the stuff that I left out (because I left A LOT out!). I am really hoping for a good long string of comments. ;)
Sunday, January 15, 2012
Chapters 10-12
Part II - The Assault
Chapter 10 - Coin decides that Peeta's warning is a good reason to evacuate everyone well underground into the bomb bunkers; Prim and Gale almost don't make it for trying to save a few precious things from the Everdeen's quarters; Prim and Katniss get to talk finally and Prim once again gives amazing advice - "Whatever it takes to break you"
Chapter 11 - Katniss realizes that "Crazy Cat" is really Snow, Peeta, and herself; she has a heart to heart with Finnick (Finnick <3); she finally realizes that Snow was waiting for her to convince him she loved Peeta so he could have the strongest weapon against her; Finnick gives her his rope to distract her <3; they go topside to film after the bombing is done and Snow left Katniss roses; Katniss breaks down; They finally send in a rescue team for Peeta...for which Gale volunteered.
Chapter 12 - Finnick and Katniss pull it together in order to film something to distract the Capitol while they perform the rescue mission; We get more back stories on the prices that the other Victors paid... Finnick shares his story with Katniss and the world; Haymitch lost his mother, brother, and girlfriend; we now know why President Snows' breath smells like blood; The rescue missions was...a success. Johanna is back, Annie is back, Gale is back...and Peeta has also made it to D13.
Two quotes really quick: Finnick's advice: "Better not to give in to it. it takes ten times as long to put yourself back together as it does to fall apart." p 154
"But in the end, the only person I truly want to comfort me is Haymitch, because he loves Peeta, too." p 160 (I don't know about you, but I was shocked that the only person she wanted was Haymitch)
So once again, a TON happened here. I actually made myself stop reading a feel what Katniss felt when she realized how Snow was using Peeta. What would I feel like if I knew that people who hated me had Brad somewhere. And that they were torturing him and bringing him back to life. Doing God-knows-what to him to create that distracted and dangerous look that we saw in Peeta's eyes at the end of 9.
But what I really want to talk about is the Hunger Games. And the fact that they never really end for any of the Victors. We have kind of touched on it before. But it was in a more abstract way. A more psychological way. As in: they would never fully recover from the trauma done to them in the arena. The things that they had to do. And the fact that they had to go back and be mentors every year. Every year re-live the experience. Figuring out how to get your District to the end. Figure out how to kill the other children. And I knew it would be important. That bit that Beetee said about everything that Finnick had gone through. My heart just breaks for Finnick. At just 14 he was turned into a sex slave.
But it is so much more than that. As far as we know, every single one of the Victors have had threats over their heads since they won. If the games themselves hadn't driven them to the brink of oblivion. Who knows what caused the other Victor-tributes to their devices. The other one who drank, the two morphlings. Was it just their Games that drove them to it or was it the continued manipulation afterwards. Some of them seemed to come out of it OK. Some of the Careers. Even Mags-she almost just seemed like an old woman. Not too terribly mad. And even at that Beetee seemed to come out as well as one could have. But I suppose he is the analytical type. And his use to the government would be to continue to develop and invent the latest technology. That seems to be straight up his alley..to always be using his mind. Maybe for him it wasn't that bad.
And with a little bit more of the background of the Victor-Tributes it makes me wonder back to book two. At the interviews. Maybe all the other Victors were glaring at Katniss, but not really at her. At President Snow's manipulation. Knowing that she was going through things that they themselves had gone through (the manipulation, the threats). All along, I had been working under the assumption that only Katniss was the one who was being threatened in order to to the President's bidding. I had never dreamed that it basically had been going on since the beginning of the Games. Now I also want to know more about Johanna's back story.
One last thought that I had. Or have had. Repeatedly. I don't think that Gale and Katniss ever could have ended up together. There are just things that Gale will never understand. There is a special bond between Finnick and Katniss that Gale would never have even. The bond of the Games. Gale may love Katniss with everything he has. He may always want to protect her. Do the right thing by her, love her. But there are parts of Katniss, major parts now, that he will never understand and he will never be able to soothe. Things that only other Victors would be able to understand.
What do you girls think? This might be the first time reading this book that I've thought "Oh my gosh, I've got to keep going! I NEED to find out what happens."
What are your suspicions about Peeta, his reaction to Katniss, what the could have been doing to him, telling him...to get a reaction like that?
Chapter 10 - Coin decides that Peeta's warning is a good reason to evacuate everyone well underground into the bomb bunkers; Prim and Gale almost don't make it for trying to save a few precious things from the Everdeen's quarters; Prim and Katniss get to talk finally and Prim once again gives amazing advice - "Whatever it takes to break you"
Chapter 11 - Katniss realizes that "Crazy Cat" is really Snow, Peeta, and herself; she has a heart to heart with Finnick (Finnick <3); she finally realizes that Snow was waiting for her to convince him she loved Peeta so he could have the strongest weapon against her; Finnick gives her his rope to distract her <3; they go topside to film after the bombing is done and Snow left Katniss roses; Katniss breaks down; They finally send in a rescue team for Peeta...for which Gale volunteered.
Chapter 12 - Finnick and Katniss pull it together in order to film something to distract the Capitol while they perform the rescue mission; We get more back stories on the prices that the other Victors paid... Finnick shares his story with Katniss and the world; Haymitch lost his mother, brother, and girlfriend; we now know why President Snows' breath smells like blood; The rescue missions was...a success. Johanna is back, Annie is back, Gale is back...and Peeta has also made it to D13.
Two quotes really quick: Finnick's advice: "Better not to give in to it. it takes ten times as long to put yourself back together as it does to fall apart." p 154
"But in the end, the only person I truly want to comfort me is Haymitch, because he loves Peeta, too." p 160 (I don't know about you, but I was shocked that the only person she wanted was Haymitch)
So once again, a TON happened here. I actually made myself stop reading a feel what Katniss felt when she realized how Snow was using Peeta. What would I feel like if I knew that people who hated me had Brad somewhere. And that they were torturing him and bringing him back to life. Doing God-knows-what to him to create that distracted and dangerous look that we saw in Peeta's eyes at the end of 9.
But what I really want to talk about is the Hunger Games. And the fact that they never really end for any of the Victors. We have kind of touched on it before. But it was in a more abstract way. A more psychological way. As in: they would never fully recover from the trauma done to them in the arena. The things that they had to do. And the fact that they had to go back and be mentors every year. Every year re-live the experience. Figuring out how to get your District to the end. Figure out how to kill the other children. And I knew it would be important. That bit that Beetee said about everything that Finnick had gone through. My heart just breaks for Finnick. At just 14 he was turned into a sex slave.
But it is so much more than that. As far as we know, every single one of the Victors have had threats over their heads since they won. If the games themselves hadn't driven them to the brink of oblivion. Who knows what caused the other Victor-tributes to their devices. The other one who drank, the two morphlings. Was it just their Games that drove them to it or was it the continued manipulation afterwards. Some of them seemed to come out of it OK. Some of the Careers. Even Mags-she almost just seemed like an old woman. Not too terribly mad. And even at that Beetee seemed to come out as well as one could have. But I suppose he is the analytical type. And his use to the government would be to continue to develop and invent the latest technology. That seems to be straight up his alley..to always be using his mind. Maybe for him it wasn't that bad.
And with a little bit more of the background of the Victor-Tributes it makes me wonder back to book two. At the interviews. Maybe all the other Victors were glaring at Katniss, but not really at her. At President Snow's manipulation. Knowing that she was going through things that they themselves had gone through (the manipulation, the threats). All along, I had been working under the assumption that only Katniss was the one who was being threatened in order to to the President's bidding. I had never dreamed that it basically had been going on since the beginning of the Games. Now I also want to know more about Johanna's back story.
One last thought that I had. Or have had. Repeatedly. I don't think that Gale and Katniss ever could have ended up together. There are just things that Gale will never understand. There is a special bond between Finnick and Katniss that Gale would never have even. The bond of the Games. Gale may love Katniss with everything he has. He may always want to protect her. Do the right thing by her, love her. But there are parts of Katniss, major parts now, that he will never understand and he will never be able to soothe. Things that only other Victors would be able to understand.
What do you girls think? This might be the first time reading this book that I've thought "Oh my gosh, I've got to keep going! I NEED to find out what happens."
What are your suspicions about Peeta, his reaction to Katniss, what the could have been doing to him, telling him...to get a reaction like that?
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)